WATCH: Chito Gascon Dismayado, DUMAMI ang NAMATAY “Dahil sa DUTERTE’s ADMINISTRATION”

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0:00    asians in aid of legislation a Senate

0:02

committee report shows there was no

0:06

state-sponsored killings in relation to

0:09

mr. that this drug war but the numbers

0:12

tell a different story

0:13

well at least according to the

0:15

commission on human rights and other

0:17

groups and now that a death-penalty Bell

0:20

is being pushed in Congress how can the

0:22

chr make it stand let’s go straight to

0:26

the source of the story

0:27

chr chairman chito gets caught thank you

0:30

for being here so no thank you for the

0:32

invitation I’m happy to be here in the

0:34

eve of Human Rights state it is the eve

0:36

of human rights day we are going to

0:38

memory that tomorrow let’s begin with

0:40

the committee report that came out very

0:43

recently

0:44

senator richard gordon chairman of the

0:46

committee on justice and human rights

0:48

saying that there is no state-sponsored

0:51

killings

0:53

what do you think of that well we

0:56

respect the Senate committees decision

0:59

to make its own judgment or things

1:01

however from the point of view of the

1:04

Commission human rights human rights

1:07

defenders and actually the International

1:09

Human Rights Committee community we

1:13

believe that it’s premature for the

1:16

Senate to make a decision of this nature

1:18

given that the president’s war on drugs

1:22

is continuing and that the debts are

1:26

piling up and unfortunately and this is

1:30

very important to highlight no one has

1:32

yet been upheld to account for these

1:34

stats because when you say

1:36

state-sponsored and he says now there is

1:38

no state-sponsored killings

1:40

it’s not just about the perpetrators but

1:43

it’s about the state in ensuring that it

1:47

will hold the perpetrators to account

1:50

meaning investigations are conducted

1:51

prosecution’s are underway and

1:54

ultimately convictions occur

1:56

yes but when the national bureau of

1:58

investigation itself finds a

2:01

determination of on as assassination an

2:04

execution

2:07

despite the official line

2:09

the those who are involved at nine lab

2:11

man who but no proof of Nanda band has

2:14

happened and then the president will say

2:17

he will make sure they are not going to

2:20

jail

2:21

I don’t know how else to describe that

2:24

but being state-sponsored so because the

2:27

president said I will not allow my men

2:31

to go to jail you feel or you’re saying

2:34

now that that is state-sponsored will

2:36

automatically when this press that says

2:39

it will be bloody I kill you I will

2:41

pardon those policemen that will be part

2:45

of this whole process it’s essentially a

2:49

public policy now I’m not saying every

2:53

single death has a reason over the last

2:56

five months was state perpetrated a

3:01

significant number are committed by

3:04

vigilantes who we do not know at this

3:08

point in time who they are there is some

3:11

anecdotal evidence to suggest that there

3:14

is at least in some cases some

3:16

relationship between some rogue elements

3:19

of the police and these vigilantes but

3:21

at least with respect to the over 2,000

3:25

deaths that resulted from what are

3:27

ostensibly legitimate police operations

3:31

and in every single instance manly man

3:34

including the one involving mayor

3:38

Espinosa again they said no man but when

3:42

you look further and deeper

3:44

it appears to be the case that at least

3:48

in many of these instances it is it that

3:50

then the police authorities that got

3:53

involved in this estate agents must be

3:56

held to account and if they’re not held

3:58

to account then that essentially

4:00

state-sponsored ok i was going to talk

4:02

about that a little later on in the

4:04

program but since you brought it up

4:05

already

4:06

yesterday there was suppressed briefing

4:08

coming from the DOJ secretary big eater

4:11

and II pnp chief ronald LMAO Secretary

4:15

of it together were quick to defend the

4:17

president first

4:18

let’s put this put this into context the

4:20

president’s words he was saying that he

4:22

believes the testimony of the policeman

4:26

and he said he will not allow them to go

4:29

to jail but that is subject to a lot of

4:31

interpretation but first let’s listen

4:33

exactly to what the president said I

4:37

will not allow these guys to go to

4:38

prison

4:39

baskin as a BNP I murder totally

4:45

undermine bi I and their communion

4:48

Department of Justice what when

4:51

Newcastle also because the Apple anyone

4:55

the opposite police believing in me or

4:58

chris messina pretty well Angela and

5:03

police on criminal you need to go back

5:07

home not political 7sec be cool and we

5:12

will toss it

5:14

this is a PMO’s error will leave in a

5:16

min doubles of the man back to totally

5:20

and my troubles

5:22

how does that make you feel well that’s

5:26

actually been what we’ve been saying

5:28

from day one know that the the

5:31

government has an obligation to ensure

5:33

that our communities are safe and

5:36

protected that criminals must be pursued

5:39

after all have criminal oh but they must

5:41

do so in accordance with due process

5:43

rule of law and respect for human rights

5:46

and up to this point in time

5:49

why we’ve had some differences in the

5:52

course of monitoring human rights cases

5:56

with security forces for the most part

5:59

the great majority of our security

6:01

forces the police and our soldiers have

6:05

over the last 30 years since the

6:07

restoration of democracy been respectful

6:10

of established norms and when there are

6:14

perpetrators they don’t cover up front

6:17

but now with President the third is a

6:21

vision of law and order and strong of

6:25

male fist approach it appears is

6:29

essentially giving law enforcement

6:31

officials apart blanche to do whatever

6:34

they would and this of course creates

6:37

the environment and context for quick

6:40

fixes or shortcuts violations of what’s

6:44

called the police operations procedures

6:46

manual p 0 p man 1 which also definitely

6:50

includes what is referred to as the use

6:52

of force continuum use of force

6:54

continuum is a set of standards whereby

6:59

our police before they use a deadly

7:02

weapon must follow and the purpose of it

7:06

is to reduce the risk of death at sea

7:11

and every instance but you know the

7:14

facts show that since mr. 30 became

7:18

president are thatthat’s arising from

7:21

police operations has risen dramatically

7:24

now I’m not saying that they are not

7:26

entitled to defend themselves in to

7:28

defend the communities certainly nonlin

7:31

ban

7:32

if proven is a justifiable circumstance

7:37

but in every single case Miliband 911

7:41

and then we’re receiving comments

7:43

they’re actually alternative stories to

7:46

some of these cases I think what needs

7:49

to be done is we pursue the

7:50

investigations as the NBI did in the

7:53

SPOs ok but it should happen for all the

7:55

also so here’s the question so the NB is

7:58

saying at least in the case of mayor

8:00

Landrieu Espinosa it was arm rub out and

8:03

it wasn’t a shootout but the president

8:05

was saying that he told his men dept

8:08

lebon as you have been saying to fight

8:11

back

8:12

what is the effect you think of the

8:14

president’s statements that he will have

8:17

allowed them to go to jail to the

8:18

finding of the NBI that it was a rub out

8:21

and not a shootout and consequently the

8:24

possible filing of cases by the DOJ

8:27

actually our position is that in this

8:29

case we should find the cases and let

8:31

the courts ultimately result based on

8:34

the evidence and in fact that’s the call

8:36

i also made the second day of Justice

8:37

earlier this week in all the other cases

8:40

where there is a statement of nala ban

8:43

effectively in previous DOJ policy not

8:48

the current one

8:49

the prosecutors would file cases against

8:53

the law enforcement officials Hussein

8:56

and LeBron because you’ve already

8:58

overcome with the threshold of what’s

9:00

called probable cause probable causes a

9:02

determination that a crime had been

9:04

committed and the one who is suspected

9:07

of having committed the crime is the

9:10

person that is currently being

9:12

investigated so in a land nallavan case

9:14

essentially you have a police officer

9:16

that says yes someone died and I was the

9:20

one who did it

9:21

the only difference is there is this

9:23

self-defense the argument right but that

9:26

is not a matter for administrative

9:29

proceedings to determine you don’t wash

9:32

your hands and say okay he scared the

9:35

charges must be filed evidence must be

9:37

presented in the courts and the courts

9:39

will have to determine is not abandon

9:41

you

9:42

this specific case of justifying so what

9:44

happens now to summarize this the NDIS

9:48

it’s are about it’s not a shootout the

9:50

president is basically the president was

9:52

saying that nobody was to shoot up

9:53

another about how are you telling me now

9:56

that it should be almost automatic that

9:59

the oj file this case against the 24

10:01

policeman involved yes it must be

10:04

especially after the NBI hasn’t seen

10:07

that the non Lebanon argument that’s not

10:10

the lie in this case cases must be filed

10:13

in court and let the courts decide but

10:15

what I’m also saying is even in the

10:17

other pieces it it must be same for

10:19

teachers a lot older than this year okay

10:22

before we go on a break

10:23

chairman what happens if it’s a four or

10:26

five man panel that the d.o.g has right

10:29

now looking into this case of the 24

10:33

policeman vs mir Rolanda is not what

10:35

happens if they do not find probable

10:37

costs how would you react to that

10:40

well then it just paints the picture

10:43

that we are that’s unfolding really that

10:45

essentially the law enforcement

10:46

officials can do very well whatever they

10:49

want and people will find it difficult

10:54

to secure justice and the problem is

10:56

with this whole non lebon justification

10:59

that men they’ll know there’s and how

11:04

can we then put anyone to to a Caucasian

11:08

or their excesses what the what the

11:11

president’s statement what he said would

11:13

that affect the ongoing probe by the

11:17

d.o.g I hope not that’s why we have a

11:19

system of rules and laws

11:21

everyone has their mandates in the DOJ

11:25

must still do their job in essence

11:28

chairman looking into the committee

11:31

report that’s how we started this

11:32

interview

11:33

how do you describe the report because

11:34

you know you have senator truly honest

11:36

and I’m requesting lemon committee

11:38

report me on BBM senator Giuliani saying

11:40

i think he called it a piece of garbage

11:42

I’m how would you describe the committee

11:44

report well the statement of fact that

11:49

the committee members have decided

11:51

at this point in the middle of the

11:53

things unfolding to make a determination

11:56

that we at best

11:58

CS premature premature are you at all of

12:02

what is happening now with the CH are

12:05

considering that the death penalty is

12:08

moving quite fast at the house of

12:11

representatives they’re going to speaker

12:13

Alvarez we had him a while back and he

12:15

said that he hopes that the house of

12:18

representatives will be able to pass

12:19

this before the Christmas break

12:22

well it appears that that is the plan of

12:25

the speaker in the the first step has

12:27

been arrived at the committee has

12:30

decided to approve the committee of in

12:35

charge of this bill to bring it to the

12:37

floor we had actually requested that

12:40

there’s be continuing hearings and to

12:42

join more experts and to look at the

12:44

international development as well but

12:47

the committee felt that it was time to

12:50

stop and pass it to the floor

12:55

we hope that the floor of the house

12:57

might consider that this is again

12:59

something that needs further

13:01

deliberation and put it back to the

13:03

committee but do you think that are over

13:07

that wants to make these of christmas

13:09

gift to president the third day that

13:12

they passed the death penalty be about

13:14

their level and so–but but we will

13:16

continue to try and fight this and all

13:18

levels what do you think about that if

13:20

you’re saying that it could possibly be

13:22

a Christmas present by speaker average

13:24

to the president

13:26

yeah well it’s essentially what we are

13:29

seeing since President there they came

13:31

to power a policy of promoting violence

13:35

in different forms we have the violence

13:37

that’s in the streets now in relation to

13:40

the drug war we now have institutional

13:44

state-sanctioned violence by way of the

13:47

region position of the death penalty but

13:49

the fight isn’t over

13:52

there’s still the

13:53

on the opportunity for discussions at

13:55

the Senate are you more optimistic about

13:57

the fight in the Senate

13:59

I you know I heard janitor we shall

14:01

develop saying that in the beginning

14:02

there were about seven senators who are

14:04

opposed to it but at last count there

14:06

are about nine or ten well certainly the

14:10

more senators that are posted the better

14:12

because they need 13 to pass a law and

14:17

so nine or ten isn’t quite there yet but

14:21

we really why we hoped there would be

14:23

more discussions an assessment of

14:27

everything that’s relevant to this in

14:30

fact one of the important things to

14:32

highlight this most states are moving

14:34

away from the death penalty that’s a

14:36

Tennessee internationalization and to

14:38

reimpose after we had already abolished

14:41

this is something that is unconscionable

14:44

okay a quick reaction the United Nations

14:47

Human Rights sent a letter to hope you

14:50

don’t mind I’m reading it I’m here my

14:51

phone to both leaders of Congress

14:53

speaker Alvarez and Senator koko

14:56

Pimentel and he was saying they were

14:58

saying that they are concerned about

15:00

this revival the possible revival of the

15:03

death penalty that we are a signatory to

15:06

the second optional protocol to the

15:08

International Convention on Civil and

15:11

Political Rights what does this all mean

15:13

chairman yeah this is a very important

15:16

matter sent by the UN high commissioner

15:18

and human rights that Congress should

15:21

take into account and this wasn’t

15:22

something that they took into account in

15:24

the house

15:25

we are a party to international

15:27

convention the second option about

15:29

protocol that essentially commits the

15:32

state to do two things

15:34

abolish the death penalty which we did

15:36

but also commits us to not very

15:41

impulsive so if Congress were to

15:44

reimpose the death penalty after it had

15:47

abolished it effectively we will be

15:49

violating this treaty to which we are

15:51

apart now I have a question on that

15:53

because speaker Alvarez that was the

15:55

same argument made by Vice President

15:57

little better and the speaker was saying

15:59

speaker alvarez was saying that

16:01

our loss are superior to us being a

16:05

signatory to any treaty

16:07

what do you say that well first treatise

16:08

are also long now and in fact in the

16:11

scheme of things where there’s more

16:14

interruption globally international law

16:17

does have impact in national laws but

16:20

not our own lost eight presidents over

16:22

international laws as being signaled

16:24

that signatories to treaties or

16:26

agreement know they are taken together

16:28

and holistically in fact the

16:30

Constitution itself our own constitution

16:32

which is our fundamental law has a

16:34

specific provision that says we adopt

16:36

the generally accepted principles of

16:38

international law as part of the law of

16:41

the land and also it has another

16:43

provision that says treaties have force

16:47

in effect once they are concurred in so

16:49

what happens is all that everybody is

16:52

survived there is a conflict of law and

16:55

while a low maybe passed by Congress

16:58

that reinforces it when it does so it is

17:01

in direct conflict with another law and

17:04

we will be in violation of that law

17:07

ok let’s talk about the war on drugs

17:09

what it what is the number of the chr

17:11

right now in terms of death on war on

17:13

drugs and how many cases are you looking

17:15

into and how many cases have been filed

17:18

we have a

17:19

you know this person killings that are

17:23

as a result of the war on drugs is

17:25

unprecedented in terms of scale and pace

17:27

you know over 5,800 in accordance with

17:32

the tally of the major no we don’t have

17:35

our own party actually so we rely on

17:38

what the media and the police report in

17:41

over five months that’s about 10,000

17:45

that’s a month and it’s staggering and

17:48

we just can’t keep pace and we’re very

17:51

small institution now we only are

17:53

currently investigating all of that 5000

17:56

only 420 cases 420k chinon you have your

18:00

hair school we have a hundred twenty we

18:03

have an intention of trying to

18:05

investigate document uncover the facts

18:08

in all of these cases but we just can’t

18:11

do it alone

18:11

that’s why we rely on police we rely on

18:14

the NBI we rely on NGOs to continue to

18:19

document you said the number is

18:21

staggering and at some point you compare

18:23

the number the deaths on the war on

18:25

drugs to the deaths during martial law

18:29

and you earned the ire of the son of the

18:31

president vice mayor power to that day

18:34

yeah well I’m just dealing with facts

18:37

that the reality is we now have 5800

18:40

debts if these are to be believed in

18:43

five months and that’s certainly far

18:45

more than the deaths that have occurred

18:46

in the first few years of martial law so

18:50

I I concede in a in a census are

18:54

different now

18:55

one was debts that were pursued as part

18:59

of the perpetuation of an authoritarian

19:01

rule the other is that the in the

19:05

pursuit of law and order purpose but in

19:09

either case there are human rights

19:12

standards that have to be complied with

19:14

and it known on vice-mayor the dead that

19:18

was trying to make a distinction between

19:20

the kind of people that are victims of

19:22

Hurricane human rights perspective every

19:25

life every person a victim an organized

19:29

system it is a cream

19:30

now they all have right does that mean

19:32

that what does that make of the times

19:35

now because if you have that comparison

19:37

I understand what you’re saying in terms

19:38

of numbers

19:39

what does this period of time mean to

19:43

you compared to the time during martial

19:45

law when there were more killings this

19:46

time than during martial law that we

19:49

haven’t learned our lesson that those

19:51

with authority those who are given the

19:54

monopoly of the use of force must in all

19:59

instances weather in time of martial law

20:01

or in time of peace where the

20:04

authoritarian periods or in democratic

20:06

systems must be held to account this is

20:09

a global problem thinking because even

20:12

in the United States people are now at

20:14

an uproar at so many debts arising from

20:16

police operations as well but I’d like

20:19

to do a follow-up on that is it works

20:21

now are you saying that it’s worse now

20:24

than then it was during martial well

20:27

that requires more messy assessment and

20:30

analysis no I wouldn’t say it’s worse in

20:33

the sense that we still have a democracy

20:35

Congress are still operating our quarter

20:38

operating you have a commission right on

20:40

human rights at the saying you know we

20:42

should stop this get back to reason and

20:44

rationality but what this word is the

20:49

fact that people are dying you have a

20:53

seven-year term the Commission on Human

20:55

Rights you’re the chairman you have four

20:57

members of the board again as I said a

21:00

seven-year term you have very have a

21:04

very cold relationship with the

21:05

president right now chairman has it

21:08

entered your mind have you thought about

21:10

it that you know because it’s so

21:14

difficult possibly for you and your team

21:16

I’ve spoken to commissioner and another

21:18

Commissioner as well Commissioner

21:20

daddy’s have you ever thought of leaving

21:22

your posts are resigning because of the

21:24

current relationship you have with the

21:25

president not the answer to that is no I

21:28

have not thought about it because I when

21:30

I took my oath of office to uphold the

21:33

fan fulfill human rights I

21:35

I knew that this must be done in good

21:38

times as well as in bad times and you

21:41

know all administration’s have their

21:42

fair share of human rights violations

21:44

and we need to call them out so we just

21:46

need to speak truth to power and do the

21:48

artwork and remind those in the

21:52

executive department because we’re

21:54

independent of the executive department

21:55

we our role is to be a monitor in

21:57

watchdog to remind them of their duties

22:01

and to call them out if they violate

22:02

human right how difficult has it been

22:05

for the chr well it’s been difficult in

22:08

terms of the resources needed to keep

22:11

pace but we’re still encouraged by the

22:15

commitment of our staff as well as the

22:19

human rights our community and we will

22:22

do the best we can and maybe from day

22:25

today might not be enough but hopefully

22:28

over time it may be enough chairman she

22:31

just called good to have you and of

22:33

course good luck that thank you so much

22:36

very much